Re: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers

Alan,
thank you very much, and thank you to public works.
I am familiar with the standards cited. I am surprised it is about
10 years! wow, time files!
I am surprised at the information below, I had a suspicion it was
more traffic than planned (new buses and more trucks than
expected) rather than construction methods.

Thanks!!
bob smith

Alan K. Thompson wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> I asked Public Works Director Addison to provide me with an answer to
> your questions, and also to answer a question of mine - are the
> street(s) you mention wearing more than is expected given the time the
> were repaved? I've pasted his answer in below (quick summary: several
> AASHTO and ASTM standards, and the street is wearing more than it
> should be, but probably not because of improper construction/repaving).
>
> Please let me know if you need more detail about the standards.
>
> Alan
> (Ward 2 Town Council Rep & Public Works Committee Member)
>
> Prince George's County uses Maryland State Highways
> Administration's (MSHA) standards and specifications (which
> includes AASHTO and ASTM) for roadway construction and/or
> replacement.
> The street in question was last resurfaced in 2002 therefore it's
> not uncommon that the roadway (a high traffic volume street) would
> be showing signs of stress.
> The street is experiencing surface wear known as pavement rutting,
> which is caused for one of three reasons:
>
> * Insufficient compaction of hot mix asphalt (HMA) when it was
> initially installed and the HMA pavement continue to densify
> from heavy traffic loads,
>
> * Improper mix design or manufacture (e.g., excessively high
> asphalt content, excessive mineral filler, insufficient amount
> of angular aggregate particles) or
>
> * Subgrading rutting (sub-base failure)
>
>
> Considering how long it has been since we have made major repairs
> to this section of street I believe what we are experiencing are
> signs of base failure. To correct the problem we may have to
> excavate down to the subbase, repair any problems found there,
> then install the asphalt cross-section (compacting in lifts per
> MSHA standards).
> Is it possible that the contractor did not properly installed the
> roadway or the roadway was not designed properly? It is possible,
> however if that was the case we would have experienced the
> previously mentioned problems a lot sooner.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:44 AM, bob smith <sfmc68@verizon.net
> <mailto:sfmc68@verizon.net>> wrote:
>
> Bear with me please, I am questions for a specific reason
> Does anyone on this list know the actual standards used to
> reconstruct the town streets?
>
> Please do not tell me to look at such and such source of
> information.
> A number of streets were reconstructed a couple of years ago.
>
> If you look closely, especially during rain storms, you will perhaps
> notice some ruts beginning to appear on SOME of the streets
> especially Riverdale Road. One simple example is Riverdale and
> Taylor, East bound at the stop sign.
>
> There is a standard used for calculating the requirements for
> streets and it is based on traffic load. One term used is ESAL,
> or Equivalent Single Axle Load. Cars represent a much lighter
> weight/mass load on the road than buses, trucks, multi axle
> trucks, even fire trucks.
>
> I am interested in learning if anyone on this list does actually
> know the standard used.
>
> thank you/
> bob smith
>
> --
> We'll see said the zen master
>
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
> <mailto:TownTalk@riverdale-park.org>
> TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org
> <mailto:TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org> is for automated
> subscription processing only
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
>
>

--
We'll see said the zen master

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Re: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers

Thank you Mr. King for your note.

I have found there are many exceptionally knowledgable people in
Riverdale Park, and
many of them are on this list. My intent ask my question. I learned a
few decades ago,
it is easy to jump to conclusions, but if you ask questionns, especially
of knowledgable
people. There are many potential reasons for the various spots in town
beginning to
display the bumps and ruts.

I did not want to address my question to the official town
administrator, my council person,
the mayor, or public works as an offical question, I am not ranting or
raving about anything,
just trying to learn/

I have heard from some folks on the question and have been in touch with
the town off list.
I hae not had my question answered just yet, but Iam not though all of
my email just yet but
when I do have it answered, I will share that info.
Respectfully,
bob smith

Lou King wrote:
> Adrianne (and Bob)
> Town Talk is not an official source of information, although sometimes
> Town Officials do read and reply here.
>
> To assure you get an official answer to you question(s) and response
> to you concern(s) I suggest you follow Sarah's advice and contact
> directly:
>
> 1. Director of Public Works, who monitors the road repair contracts.
> Mr. Addison at:
> 301-864-1803
> laddison@riverdaleparkmd.gov
>
> and
>
> 2. your Ward Councilperson
>
> Ward 1: (Madison on the west side of the tracks)
>
> Jonathan Ebbeler
> 4711 Oliver Street
> Cell: 404-626-2082
> Email: jebbeler@riverdaleparkmd.gov
>
> Ward 3: (Madison on the east side of the tracks)
>
> David Lingua
> 5902 Riverside Drive
> Email: djlingua@riverdaleparkmd.gov
>
> And/or the Mayor
>
> Vernon Archer
> 4510 Oliver Street
> Cell: 240:832-2257 (main contact)
> varcher@gmail.com
>
> You could also contact members of the Public Works Committee
>
> Chair - Christopher Henry (Ward 4), or members Alan Thompson (Ward 2)
> and Jonathan Ebbeler (ward 1)
>
>
> If you want the correct answer, go to the source.
> --
> Lou
> O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop HTML mail - www.asciiribbon.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
> TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> processing only
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
>

--
We'll see said the zen master

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TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription processing only
http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk

For more information about Riverdale Park, visit http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info

Re: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers

Hi Bob,

I asked Public Works Director Addison to provide me with an answer to your questions, and also to answer a question of mine - are the street(s) you mention wearing more than is expected given the time the were repaved?  I've pasted his answer in below (quick summary: several AASHTO and ASTM standards, and the street is wearing more than it should be, but probably not because of improper construction/repaving).

Please let me know if you need more detail about the standards.

Alan

(Ward 2 Town Council Rep & Public Works Committee Member)

Prince George's County uses Maryland State Highways Administration's (MSHA) standards and specifications (which includes AASHTO and ASTM) for roadway construction and/or replacement.  
The street in question was last resurfaced in 2002 therefore it's not uncommon that the roadway (a high traffic volume street) would be showing signs of stress. 
The street is experiencing surface wear known as pavement rutting, which is caused for one of three reasons: 

• Insufficient compaction of hot mix asphalt (HMA) when it was initially installed and the HMA pavement continue to densify from heavy traffic loads, 

• Improper mix design or manufacture (e.g., excessively high asphalt content, excessive mineral filler, insufficient amount of angular aggregate particles) or

• Subgrading rutting (sub-base failure)

Considering how long it has been since we have made major repairs to this section of street I believe what we are experiencing are signs of base failure. To correct the problem we may have to excavate down to the subbase, repair any problems found there, then install the asphalt cross-section (compacting in lifts per MSHA standards).
Is it possible that the contractor did not properly installed the roadway or the roadway was not designed properly? It is possible, however if that was the case we would have experienced the previously mentioned problems a lot sooner.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:44 AM, bob smith <sfmc68@verizon.net> wrote:

Bear with me please, I am questions for a specific reason
Does anyone on this list know the actual standards used to
reconstruct the town streets?

Please do not tell me to look at such and such source of
information.
A number of streets were reconstructed a couple of years ago.

If you look closely, especially during rain storms, you will perhaps
notice some ruts beginning to appear on SOME of the streets
especially Riverdale Road. One simple example is Riverdale and
Taylor, East bound at the stop sign.

There is a standard used for calculating the requirements for
streets and it is based on traffic load. One term used is ESAL,
or Equivalent Single Axle Load.  Cars represent a much lighter
weight/mass load on the road than buses, trucks, multi axle
trucks, even fire trucks.

I am interested in learning if anyone on this list does actually
know the standard used.

thank you/
bob smith

--
We'll see said the zen master

_______________________________________________
TownTalk mailing list
To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription processing only
http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk

For more information about Riverdale Park, visit http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info

Re: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers

Adrianne (and Bob)
Town Talk is not an official source of information, although sometimes
Town Officials do read and reply here.

To assure you get an official answer to you question(s) and response to
you concern(s) I suggest you follow Sarah's advice and contact directly:

1. Director of Public Works, who monitors the road repair contracts.
Mr. Addison at:
301-864-1803
laddison@riverdaleparkmd.gov

and

2. your Ward Councilperson

Ward 1: (Madison on the west side of the tracks)

Jonathan Ebbeler
4711 Oliver Street
Cell: 404-626-2082
Email: jebbeler@riverdaleparkmd.gov

Ward 3: (Madison on the east side of the tracks)

David Lingua
5902 Riverside Drive
Email: djlingua@riverdaleparkmd.gov

And/or the Mayor

Vernon Archer
4510 Oliver Street
Cell: 240:832-2257 (main contact)
varcher@gmail.com

You could also contact members of the Public Works Committee

Chair - Christopher Henry (Ward 4), or members Alan Thompson (Ward 2)
and Jonathan Ebbeler (ward 1)

If you want the correct answer, go to the source.
--
Lou
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop HTML mail - www.asciiribbon.org

_______________________________________________
TownTalk mailing list
To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription processing only
http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk

For more information about Riverdale Park, visit http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info

Re: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers

 

I brought this exact problem at this exact intersection to the attention of the Town Administrator's office in the summer of last year, so I suspect there has been some movement on this problem.  I know I cannot drive over that part of the road without scraping the undercarriage of my car unless I very intentionally straddle the wheel ruts.

 

Again, I would like to hear what the Town intends to do to repair/replace.  I hope we will  be holding the contractor responsible because they obviously did not do the job right. 

 

Thanks!

 

Adrianne Lefkowitz

Madison Street

 

  Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 04:44:14 -0500
From: bob smith <sfmc68@verizon.net>
To: TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
Subject: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers
Message-ID: <4F4B506E.40107@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Bear with me please, I am questions for a specific reason
Does anyone on this list know the actual standards used to
reconstruct the town streets?

Please do not tell me to look at such and such source of
information.
A number of streets were reconstructed a couple of years ago.

If you look closely, especially during rain storms, you will perhaps
notice some ruts beginning to appear on SOME of the streets
especially Riverdale Road. One simple example is Riverdale and
Taylor, East bound at the stop sign.

There is a standard used for calculating the requirements for
streets and it is based on traffic load. One term used is ESAL,
or Equivalent Single Axle Load.  Cars represent a much lighter
weight/mass load on the road than buses, trucks, multi axle
trucks, even fire trucks.

I am interested in learning if anyone on this list does actually
know the standard used.

thank you/
bob smith

[RP TownTalk] Events, 2-28-12

This in from TownAnnounce this afternoon:

Legislative Meeting: March 5, 2012, 8:00pm, Town Hall 

Work Session: March 26, 2012, 8:00pm, Town Hall 

Town Meetings: 

Riverdale Park Arts Council: 

February 28, 2012, 7:00pm, Meeting held at Town Hall 

CKAR Meeting: 

March 6, 2012, 7:00pm, Meeting held at 6200 Sheridan Street, The Center for Educational Partnership. 

(Next to William Wirt Middle School) 

MUTC Committee Meeting: 

March 7, 2012, 7:30p.m., Meeting held at Town Hall 

Madison Hill Homeowners Association: 

March 10, 2012, 10:30a.m., Meeting held at Town Hall. 

Riverdale Park Business Association: 

March 14, 2012, 5:30pm, Meeting held at Town Hall 

Public Works Committee Meeting: 

March 16, 2012, 9:00am, Meeting Held at Town Hall 

Farmers Market Meeting: 

March 17, 2012, 10:00am, Meeting Held at Town Hall

 

Other Meetings: 

Daisy Troop # 2546: 

March 7, 2012 and March 21, 2012 6:30pm-7:30pm, Meeting held at Town Hall 

Brownie Troop # 6892: 

March 1, 2012 and March 15, 6:30pm-7:45 pm, Meeting held at Town Hall. 

Lions Club: 

March 28, 2012, 7:00pm, Meeting held at Town Hall 

Updated February 28, 2012 

Re: [RP TownTalk] Question on street repair for the list readers

Hi Bob,

Sheila posted this question a month or so ago, and Lou recommended
that she call Leonard Addison, the Director of the Department of
Public Works. He will definitely know the answer to your question (and
I'm taking the lack of response on the list as an indication that no
one who regularly reads the list knows the answer.)

You can reach Mr. Addison at:
301-864-1803
laddison@riverdaleparkmd.gov

-Sarah

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:44 AM, bob smith <sfmc68@verizon.net> wrote:
> Bear with me please, I am questions for a specific reason
> Does anyone on this list know the actual standards used to
> reconstruct the town streets?
>
> Please do not tell me to look at such and such source of
> information.
> A number of streets were reconstructed a couple of years ago.
>
> If you look closely, especially during rain storms, you will perhaps
> notice some ruts beginning to appear on SOME of the streets
> especially Riverdale Road. One simple example is Riverdale and
> Taylor, East bound at the stop sign.
>
> There is a standard used for calculating the requirements for
> streets and it is based on traffic load. One term used is ESAL,
> or Equivalent Single Axle Load.  Cars represent a much lighter
> weight/mass load on the road than buses, trucks, multi axle
> trucks, even fire trucks.
>
> I am interested in learning if anyone on this list does actually
> know the standard used.
>
> thank you/
> bob smith
>
> --
> We'll see said the zen master
>
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
> TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription processing
> only
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info

--
Sarah Wayland
sarah.wayland@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
TownTalk mailing list
To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk@riverdale-park.org
TownTalk-request@riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription processing only
http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk

For more information about Riverdale Park, visit http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info